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Talk:Susanoo Bow
Classification Like the weapons Itachi's Susanoo used, I think this should be a tool article instead of jutsu. And something along the lines of "Bow and arrow", since it's not just the arrows. Omnibender - Talk - 01:41, November 27, 2010 (UTC) Brahmastra Seems like Sasuke has a weaker version, both are fast except that Brahmastra's trajectory couldn't be stopped so instead speed was adopted and its destructive power was reduced for the manga.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmastra[[User:Umishiru|Umishiru]] (talk) 21:44, February 4, 2011 (UTC) :If this was something used by the Rinnegan, I'd say you're probably right, but all things related to the Mangekyō Sharingan so far have ties to Shintoism. Omnibender - Talk - 21:46, February 4, 2011 (UTC) True, the crossbow was a strange choice for Kishi, seeing as I see no mythological bows in Shintoism or Japanese mythology. In general just find European, or mainland Asia mythological bows.Umishiru (talk) 21:50, February 4, 2011 (UTC) :Who cares? That crossbow is pretty bad-ass. (talk) 21:54, February 4, 2011 (UTC) Oh, yes, your input totality helps the conversation./sarcasm Umishiru (talk) 22:17, February 4, 2011 (UTC) :::If I'm not mistaken, the legend tells of how Amaterasu kept a bow and arrow next to her throne after Susanoo killed some of her chamber maidens. —ShounenSuki (talk | | translations) 22:37, February 4, 2011 (UTC) ::I haven't read up on my Japanese mythology in a while, but that is a bout the gist of it Shounen. ~ Fmakck - Talk - '' 00:12, February 5, 2011 (UTC) :::Yeah, If I'm not mistaken she's the goddess of sun? looks like kishi use japanese mithology for the jutsu. I wonder If Sasuke can use the Totsuka sword and yata mirror, is the weapon is different for each user?littlethief93Talk 12:51, September 4, 2011 (UTC) Crossbow or just bow? Isn't this weapon really just a bow held sideways? It lacks any mechanical trigger or similar that normally defines a crossbow and is operated purely by arm power. ZeroSD (talk) :It doesn't look like any normal bow I've ever seen. ''~ Fmakck - Talk - '' 00:11, February 5, 2011 (UTC) ::No, but an unusual bow is still a bow and not a crossbow. ZeroSD (talk) 00:19, February 5, 2011 (UTC) :::I see that, I'm just saying that it doesn't look like a bow to me, but then again it's obviously not a crossbow either.. ''~ Fmakck - Talk - '' 00:23, February 5, 2011 (UTC) ::::They way its operated, the way the arrow is nocked it looks very similar to a traditional bow. Granted handle is very wide (the swirl) but the limbs and string are traditional longbow. I would say it should be renamed Susano'o bow instead of crossbow. :::::The traditional definition of a crossbow would be: a bow fixed transversely on a wooden stock grooved to direct the arrow. :The bow Susano'o wields has no stock, or firing grove. It honestly just looks like a highly fantasized bow. -KageBushin (Saturday, February 5, 2011 12:51 UTC) ::It works in the same way as a traditional bow, without any of the features a crossbow is known for, so let's just keep things simple and call it a bow. —ShounenSuki (talk | | translations) 12:18, February 5, 2011 (UTC) :::I concur with Shounen--Cerez (talk) 20:49, February 5, 2011 (UTC) Ok, unless there's any more objections, I'm changing it. ZeroSD (talk) 23:35, February 5, 2011 (UTC) :To me, it looks like an odd combination between a wrist-mounted crossbow and a traditional bow. As for what usually constitutes a crossbow: ": a weapon for shooting quarrels and stones that consists chiefly of a short bow mounted crosswise near the end of a stock "; in this case, the stock would be the forearm/wrist it's attached to. --Alexdhamp (talk) 22:31, June 9, 2011 (UTC) Arrow of Black Flames Would not it be better to put the image of the arrow of Kagutsuchi in infobox?Entondark (talk) 22:26, August 4, 2013 (UTC) :Not really. We have a clear shot of it in the anime already, and it's the most basic version of it we've seen. Black arrows are not the base of it. Omnibender - Talk - 00:38, August 5, 2013 (UTC) classification 2 It's a jutsu, not a tool Omni. I bring this up again, Susanoo Bow/arrows, Susanoo Swords are no different from Yasaka Magatama. Itachi's blade and shield were an actual tools in existence before Itachi that he had equipped his Susanoo with in order to use. It's completely wrong, why the ignorance? All the Susanoo gear are part of the chakra, otherwise the layer of armor is a tool too or shit.--Elveonora (talk) 14:09, August 5, 2013 (UTC) :Itachi's Susanoo equipments are tools, the others bows, swords aren't tools, but techniques. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 15:34, August 5, 2013 (UTC) :As far as I'm concerned, they're all techniques used through Susanoo. :P —[[User:SaiST|'''SaiST]] 「talk| 」 18:12, August 5, 2013 (UTC) ::Well, tell that to administration and people like Cerez who are seemingly okay with them being wrongly listed as tools in character's infoboxes--Elveonora (talk) 19:16, August 5, 2013 (UTC) :::I'd be perfectly happy to list them as jutsu, or even simply merge them into the Susanoo article, were it not the fact that we have two prominent exceptions, explicitly introduced as tools, and implied to have been searched for by third parties. Omnibender - Talk - 20:00, August 5, 2013 (UTC) ::::And those exceptions are well known, for nothing suggests their Susanoo Blades and Bows used to be a separate items. Once I see some other characters separating them from Sasuke or Madara's Susanoo and using as their own, I will be okay with them being listed as tools. But before that happens, they are wrongly classified--Elveonora (talk) 17:32, August 6, 2013 (UTC) :::::If that's the case, I still rather have been merged into Susanoo. Less unnamed articles. Omnibender - Talk - 18:23, August 6, 2013 (UTC) ::::::So be it then, the voices have been heard _^--Elveonora (talk) 19:00, August 6, 2013 (UTC) My voice is only one. Let's give others more time to speak. Omnibender - Talk - 19:49, August 6, 2013 (UTC) Both Dan. and SaiST disagree with their current classification as well, that goes 4 people vs 0 opposition, but yeah, without Cerez, nothing gets done.--Elveonora (talk) 19:53, August 6, 2013 (UTC) :I'm talking about other regulars in general. Omnibender - Talk - 20:40, August 6, 2013 (UTC) ::Here's the thing...in one example (Yasaka Magatama) we have a Susanoo-related jutsu, on the other hand we've had characters refer to Susanoo's weapons as tools (Sword of Totsuka/Yata Mirror)...whatever the choices, we either make it all tools or all derived jutsus...plus since the articles still exist, i don't think that should be erased. Whatever the choice, it has to be all-encopassing (did i spell that right?). Darksusanoo (talk) 21:00, August 6, 2013 (UTC) :::EDIT:Also another thing, @Elve, we don't have concrete evidence of origin of the Sword of Totsuka/Yata Mirror...mentions of them in legends but never any real proof they were physical weapons...maybe they were jutsu like every thing else. Darksusanoo (talk) 21:04, August 6, 2013 (UTC) ::::We know they weren't physical weapons, that's not the point. Due to their legendary status and another person spending lifetime trying to get them, that means they didn't naturally come with Itachi's Susanoo. A tool is an object (corporeal or not) the sword and bow are no different than the rest of the Susanoo's body, chakra materialized. So by that standard the whole Susanoo should be a tool, but we know it's a technique. Therefore, we treat the weapons as techniques or merge them with Susanoo (which you oppose) and I agree they shouldn't. I mean, we don't merge all the Rasengan variants with the main Rasengan article for example--Elveonora (talk) 21:18, August 6, 2013 (UTC) :::::True...as i said...we either make them all tools or all techniques...maybe all techniques...plus while Susanoo was reffered as a rarity in Sharingan users, we don't know if other Uchiha besides the Big Three awoke it, maybe even with the same weapons as Itachi's...but the point is, as we are unaware of their full origin. Darksusanoo (talk) 21:25, August 6, 2013 (UTC) 0_0 Don't know if i'm considered a regular lol, but yea, totally agree with Elve. Like always. You've got my vote. But as for Totsuka and Yata, I believe they need to be left as tools. The only confusion that comes from that is the fact that they are summoned with Itachi's Susanoo, each time his complete Susanoo is activated. Weird. KotoSenju ('''OldUser:'JaZZBaND)''-Talk- 22:43, August 6, 2013 (UTC) I believe the best comparison would be that Obito's staff is a technique, while Sage's staff for all we know was an actual item. Just as Susanoo Swords and Bows are shape-shifted chakra of the Susanoo, while the sacred relics Itachi somewhere found--Elveonora (talk) 10:56, August 7, 2013 (UTC) :Who said Itachi "found" the Totsuka no Tsurugi and Yata no Kagami, though? Zetsu heard of 'em, Orochimaru sought one of 'em out, doesn't mean they were actually out there to be picked up and used as accessories. The manner in which they're conjured up on Itachi's Susanoo are no different from the manner in which the chakra orb, swords, and bow are conjured up on Sasuke's; only the fact that the armament of Itachi's Susanoo is named, and known to be wielded before his time differentiates them. Few actually consider the prospect of these ethereal "tools" actually being tied to the Uchiha's ocular powers. —[[User:SaiST|'SaiST']] 「talk| 」 13:46, August 7, 2013 (UTC) :: The amount of speculation in this thread astounds me. Orochimaru stated that Itachi found the weapons. That's all we know. Considering that he'd been searching for them himself, that suggests they were never originally part of Itachi's Susanoo. Now, let's tone down the speculation and keep to what we actually know, shall we? ~ 'Ten Tailed Fox 13:59, August 7, 2013 (UTC) :::How could someone that isn't a Uchiha (Orochimaru) search for them if they were supposedly Susanoo's chakra manifestations? they are legendary, before Itachi add them they already add that status, that is why Orochimaru looked out for them and clearly tools that Itachi equipped his Susanoo with, the others are chakra manifestations from Susanoo, clearly techniques, i am ok with merging them. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 14:09, August 7, 2013 (UTC) :::: Dan, I swear you and the rest of the site are reading a different manga. It is stated in both the manga and the databook that Orochimaru searched for them. They are NOT originally Susanoo weapons. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 14:14, August 7, 2013 (UTC) :: That's what Dan was saying Ten-T.... KotoSenju ('''OldUser:'JaZZBaND)''-Talk- 14:17, August 7, 2013 (UTC) :::@Fox, he isn't disagreeing 0_0--Elveonora (talk) 14:18, August 7, 2013 (UTC) ::::Yeah, I'm the only one questioning the classification of Itachi's Susanoo armament here. ;) Anyways—all we know is that they were not originally Itachi's Susanoo weapons. Orochimaru exclaimed that Itachi had them, not "found". I'm not looking for this to be mentioned that way in the article, only pointing out the fact that it's a mighty presumption that Itachi's Susanoo was accessorised with the sword and mirror just because Orochimaru sought the former out. If that helps come to a more definite conclusion regarding how Susanoo's weapons in general should be classified, then hurrah. Otherwise, ignore it; my intent wasn't to start forum-like debate on the matter. —[[User Talk:SaiST|「'SaiST'」]] 14:29, August 7, 2013 (UTC) I see no disagreements so far--Elveonora (talk) 10:56, August 8, 2013 (UTC) :Well, it's been a couple days, and I put the warning in all caps in the edit summary when I did it, so anyone who wanted to voice their opinion had their chance. Just to be clear, we're going to merge bow and sword into the Susanoo article, ok? Omnibender - Talk - 15:56, August 8, 2013 (UTC) ::A merger perhaps is too drastic, they can still easily classify as techniques. I mean, any manipulation of chakra is a technique essentially. It would be like merging chakra arms with jinchuuriki forms. If we count a kick or fart a technique, so should we these, otherwise it look weird--Elveonora (talk) 16:55, August 8, 2013 (UTC) Needs one-two extra inputs and someone to actually make the action take place in time continuum--Elveonora (talk) 14:33, August 11, 2013 (UTC) :Yeah, I'll probably read through that.... later. Much later. I say we go with Omni's option. The bow/sword that Susanoo creates is an extension of Susanoo itself and can't be used without it so I say we merge them (maybe make a weapons section in the article). Joshbl56 14:38, August 11, 2013 (UTC) ::Merge if not merging Itachi's Susanoo tools. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 14:45, August 11, 2013 (UTC) :::Are you saying we should merge these with Susanoo page as long as we don't touch Yata Mirror/That sword who's name I don't feel like searching for? If so, I completely agree. It was already mentioned that people knew of them before Itachi showed Susanoo and someone searching for them. Joshbl56 15:03, August 11, 2013 (UTC) ::::If you guys want to move the singled out articles, why not add the weapons to the basic Susanoo page so we have a Susanoo Central instead of two or three articles? I think it's odd to call these creations a justu more than listing them as tools.--Cerez365™ (talk) 16:58, August 11, 2013 (UTC) If you don't oppose a general merger, then you are free to do so Cerez, in case you are bored and willing so of course--Elveonora (talk) 17:10, August 11, 2013 (UTC) :Anyone mind this?--Cerez365™ (talk) 20:46, August 16, 2013 (UTC) ::Other than having to remove a few redundant parts between weaponry and development, I say it's fine. Joshbl56 21:13, August 16, 2013 (UTC) :::Too long to read, but I trust that it's a quality stuff by our friend Cerez ;D--Elveonora (talk) 21:15, August 16, 2013 (UTC) :::::Yep i would say thats fine --Root根 21:20, August 16, 2013 (UTC) :::::I imagined it to be a central place for all things Susanoo. Though when I copied and pasted the info from the Susanoo Weapon article it did look very long. On the other hand it eradicates the need to have a separate and jutsu(?) article for the weapons alone.--Cerez365™ (talk) 21:21, August 16, 2013 (UTC) ::::::It may be long but its nice and informative --Root根 21:25, August 16, 2013 (UTC) Bump--Root根 21:32, August 16, 2013 (UTC) Bumping is usually done after at least 24 hours of inactivity/lack of interest shown from others in a topic. I'm neutral on the matter. My goal which I proudly achieved was to change the classification from tools into anything. If they stay a separate article and a technique or get merged with Susanoo I'm neutral about, don't care much.--Elveonora (talk) 21:57, August 16, 2013 (UTC) :I'd like them to get merged but like Elve I'm fine with that --Root根 21:59, August 16, 2013 (UTC)